Taylor Swift is leaving no stone unturned in her interview for Time’s Person of the Year cover story (AKA her first full-length interview in nearly four years), from praising Beyoncé to dishing on her relationship with Travis Kelce. But while the songstress may have a lot to celebrate this year, she’s the first to acknowledge that she couldn’t have reached a new high without first experiencing some very low lows — one of which came courtesy of her infamous feud with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West.

In the interview, published Wednesday, Swift opened up about the 2016 conflict for the first time in years, where she spoke about how her cancellation (a result of Kardashian sharing a secretly recorded phone conversation between Swift and Kanye on Twitter) took her to a “low” place that she’d “never been before.”​​

”Make no mistake — my career was taken away from me,” Swift said of the backlash she received after Kardashian’s tweet gained traction. “You have a fully manufactured frame job, in an illegally recorded phone call, which Kim Kardashian edited and then put out to say to everyone that I was a liar.”

She continued, “That took me down psychologically to a place I’ve never been before. I moved to a foreign country. I didn’t leave a rental house for a year. I was afraid to get on phone calls. I pushed away most people in my life because I didn’t trust anyone anymore. I went down really, really hard.”

Taylor added that while she “thought that moment of backlash was going to define me negatively for the rest of my life,” she eventually made it to the other side. The one somewhat positive side of the situation, Swift says? It made her realize that “nothing is permanent.”

“I’m very careful to be grateful every second that I get to be doing this at this level, because I’ve had it taken away from me before,” she explained. “There is one thing I’ve learned: My response to anything that happens, good or bad, is to keep making things. Keep making art.” 

“But I’ve also learned there’s no point in actively trying to quote unquote defeat your enemies,” the A-lister concluded. “Trash takes itself out every single time.”